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WACTCLC.org

Alma / Primo Call - March 8, 2022

Recording

No recording.

Attendees

abby koehler (she/her)
Amy Herman# Olympic College
Clare Bryant (Edmonds)
Dan Moore
Jennifer Rohan
Kirsti Thomas (Seattle Colleges)
Laura Staley - Renton Tech
Lesley Caldwell (Librarian# she/her)
Lily Kun (SPSCC)
Linda Garcia (LCC Library)
Lurana Culligan (Edmonds)
Lynn Robinson (BTC) (Lynn)
Melinda Martin
Naoko Yasuda
Nicole Longpre
Paula Laine
Ryer Banta Centralia College
Traci Taylor (BTC)
Wade Guidry
Will Parnell
Xinhang

Discussions

Discussion about Consortium Futures - The Next 5 Years

Topic: Needs

 

Context:

ORCA - 2000 (?) to 2015

  • Self-funded from institutional budgets
  • Voyager
  • 17 libraries
  • focused on cataloging and fulfillment
  • 1FTE

WACTCLC Alma / Primo Project - 2016 to present

  • $1.5 Million seed money from SBCTC, followed by self-funding from institutional budgets
  • Initiated by larger vision of a statewide CTC library catalog
  • Alma / Primo
  • 26 libraries
  • focused on cataloging, fulfillment, electronic resources, discovery, acquisitions
  • 1 FTE

 

Support needs and desires:

Individualized Systems support (baseline)

  • Alma module configuration
  • Integrations (authentication, patron loading)
  • Primo configuration
  • Analytics

Community Development

  • Email lists
  • Weekly calls
  • Coordination
  • "Best Practices" development
  • Training
  • Funding efforts - grant seeking
  • In-person meetings; or online-based conference events
  • Regional PNW Eluna group

Big Picture, "Infrastructure for All"

  • Shared bargaining and licensing of general content
  • Shared bargaining and licensing of program-specific content (ex: nursing, welding)
  • Shared licensing of EZProxy
  • OpenAthens implementation as alternative to EZProxy
  • Shared discovery (single Primo instance?)
  • Single Alma instance? Regional Alma Instances?
  • Centralized hosting (EZproxy?)

Metadata / analytics support

  • EDI subject headings work 
  • Shared cataloging (Network Zone implementation)
  • Cooperative management of electronic resources
  • Centralized analytics

Value-added workflow services

  • Resource sharing

Post-meeting ideas from Wade

  • Transition from paid to Open Access content (focus on research and journals content, rather than elearning content, which SBCTC owns)
  • OCLC-less library - transitioning away from OCLC with the goal of reducing the OCLC invoice to 0; not because OCLC is bad, per se. But to reduce platform duplication
  • E-only library - Aggressively transition away from physical materials, with a goal of 0% physically-based knowledge transmission in 5  to 10 years
  • Regional physical collection hubs - Maybe as an alternative or path to e-only, maintain physical collections only in every other library, or in one library per geographic locus of closely adjacent institutions

Potential Consortium Directions

  • Centralization - Absorption of library services by SBCTC (think "Canvas for libraries" or "ctcLink for Libraries")
    Would likely require unanimous support from the Board of Presidents, seems like a big ask
  • Consortial Expansion - Move toward original 2015 vision
    Would require expanded staffing at consortium level and improved staffing at many member institutions
  • Consortial Contraction - Focus more on support for individual institutions

Constraints

  • "Have" vs "Have not" libraries
  • Limits on institutional staffing and expertise, especially post-COVID
  • Funding is institutional, some needs / desires are statewide

Chat

Chat from Tuesday, March 8, 2022

From Melinda Martin to Everyone 10:00 AM
I am here, but may have to mute the meeting for a call shortly (so if you ask a question of me and I don't answer, that's why.) :) I'm on hold at the moment.

From abby koehler (she/her) to Everyone 10:04 AM
Morning!
Not me

From Traci Taylor (BTC) to Everyone 10:04 AM
no

From Kirsti Thomas (Seattle Colleges) to Everyone 10:04 AM
Not yet

From Lily Kun (SPSCC) to Everyone 10:04 AM
No

From Nicole Longpre to Everyone 10:04 AM
No
From Laura Staley - Renton Tech to Everyone 10:04 AM
No.

From Lesley Caldwell (Librarian, she/her) to Everyone 10:09 AM
The first cohort was definitely grumpy about going live before Wade, Haha.

From Nicole Longpre to Everyone 10:10 AM
Yes we were!

From Lesley Caldwell (Librarian, she/her) to Everyone 10:10 AM
It bonded us, though, right? ;)

From Lily Kun (SPSCC) to Everyone 10:11 AM
Yeah, first cohort didn't really have much support....

From Traci Taylor (BTC) to Everyone 10:11 AM
That's right!

From Lily Kun (SPSCC) to Everyone 10:11 AM
Yep!

From Amy Herman, Olympic College to Everyone 10:13 AM
The main thing we had to do for Voyager was just re-customize all the files (xsl, xml, css, etc) every summer during the annual upgrade.  So the "systems" job grew a LOT with Alma/Primo.

From Dan Moore to Everyone 10:16 AM
It's quite tough right now to think about the future tbh

From Kirsti Thomas (Seattle Colleges) to Everyone 10:17 AM

From discussions with ctc library administrators across the state when I joined Seattle Colleges, Alma-Primo was seen as the first step in a long-term project with the end goal of unmediated resource sharing.

From Lesley Caldwell (Librarian, she/her) to Everyone 10:18 AM
Agreed, Kirsti. More consortial subscriptions. More shared administration in Alma where possible.

From Amy Herman, Olympic College to Everyone 10:18 AM
Yes Kirsti, that is correct.  The SBCTC helped fund the move to Alma/Primo based on that goal.

From Melinda Martin to Everyone 10:18 AM
How many of the CCs across the state are NOT in our consortium?

From Dan Moore to Everyone 10:18 AM
I'd +1 shared collections in Alma definitely

From Kirsti Thomas (Seattle Colleges) to Everyone 10:19 AM
Ones that I know of-- Clark (Orbis Cascade), Tacoma, Clover Park, Bates

From Nicole Longpre to Everyone 10:19 AM
My former boss thought that Alma=Shared Collections

From abby koehler (she/her) to Everyone 10:20 AM
Are you kinda talking about the Ex Libris Resource Sharing Directory you mentioned in a listserv post this week, Wade?

From Dan Moore to Everyone 10:21 AM
Do you think Clover Park would be up for releasing how much money they saved/spent after the migration? Like maybe a year out?

From Amy Herman, Olympic College to Everyone 10:21 AM
When we went to Alma, it was just so much cheaper to do the consortium deal and have your (or your position) expertise than to hire another FT person with benefits to do systems full time.

From Kirsti Thomas (Seattle Colleges) to Everyone 10:23 AM
The issue I've seen with Open Sourse systems is that you need to pay for more specialized expertise to run them.  So you can pay $90,000 for a hosted system, or you can pay >$90,000 + benefits for a systems person. It doesn't necessarily save you money.
"Open Source"

From abby koehler (she/her) to Everyone 10:24 AM
Open Sour$e :)

From Dan Moore to Everyone 10:24 AM
But it is a free puppy

From Kirsti Thomas (Seattle Colleges) to Everyone 10:24 AM
@abby & @ Dan: 🤣

From Nicole Longpre to Everyone 10:24 AM
🐶

From Melinda Martin to Everyone 10:26 AM
Agreed, Lesley!

From Amy Herman, Olympic College to Everyone 10:27 AM
Yes, Kirsti! At the beginning we were paying for both Shellie and Wade. When Shellie retired she wasn't replaced.

From Lily Kun (SPSCC) to Everyone 10:27 AM
Agreed, Kirsti!!!

From Ryer Banta Centralia College to Everyone 10:27 AM
Yes, open source isn't free of cost. Probably only feasible if we were able to share a few systems people across our group.

From Dan Moore to Everyone 10:27 AM
+1 Ryer
Plus there's the larger OS community, which always tend to be supportive

From Ryer Banta Centralia College to Everyone 10:28 AM
When we're talking 90k for a hosted system, is that per library or across system?

From Kirsti Thomas (Seattle Colleges) to Everyone 10:29 AM
Alma & Primo config, CSS, scripting, data sharing with ctcLink

From Paula Laine to Everyone 10:29 AM
How about the Alma monthly mutation? We still will need support!

From Lesley Caldwell (Librarian, she/her) to Everyone 10:29 AM
I'd like someone to help guide us through large EDI projects too (like subject headings work)

From Amy Herman, Olympic College to Everyone 10:29 AM
Yes, Lesley. Agree.

From Laura Staley - Renton Tech to Everyone 10:30 AM
Primo configuration

From Jennifer Rohan to Everyone 10:30 AM
Absolutely, Kirsti!!!

From Amy Herman, Olympic College to Everyone 10:30 AM
I've asked many times to free up some of my time to learn Alma much more deeply and it never happens.  So unless that ever changes, I will have to rely on Wade/his position more than I would like!

From Dan Moore to Everyone 10:31 AM
Can we call that "learning support" Melinda and Kirsti?
oo community development is better

From Kirsti Thomas (Seattle Colleges) to Everyone 10:31 AM
Aww, Thanks Dan!

From abby koehler (she/her) to Everyone 10:32 AM
Maintaining the network of support for ever-shifting user environments

From Ryer Banta Centralia College to Everyone 10:32 AM
Could we do EzProxy or similar at a system level? Like actually hosting and managing it away from local IT departments.

From abby koehler (she/her) to Everyone 10:33 AM
Developing strategies, connections, and practices that foster equitable and inclusive online environments for students

From Ryer Banta Centralia College to Everyone 10:33 AM
Great thoughts Abby!

From Melinda Martin to Everyone 10:34 AM
We were part of Network Zone with WIN - I don't recommned
recommend.

From Dan Moore to Everyone 10:34 AM
+1 Ryer to the proxy idea too. ctcLink is a shared user database, so proxy should be too ideally

From Lesley Caldwell (Librarian, she/her) to Everyone 10:35 AM
Ryer and Dan, maybe that could happen esp alongside the state Okta contract?

From abby koehler (she/her) to Everyone 10:36 AM
+1 for proxy/ authentication collaboration
we're too reliant on institutional IT that has different practices

From Dan Moore to Everyone 10:36 AM
And it'd probably make all our IT depts SUPER HAPPY to never have to touch a proxy issue again

From Ryer Banta Centralia College to Everyone 10:36 AM
At least here, our IT department is less and less able to do anything with EzProxy - and I take care of most of it. I'm probably especially grumpy about this because my EzProxy is still down and they won't even talk to me about spinning up a cloud server and letting me take it from there, at least as a temp solution.

From Dan Moore to Everyone 10:36 AM
That's awful Ryer :(

From Ryer Banta Centralia College to Everyone 10:37 AM
Three weeks after cyberattack, the message is, we have no timeline and it's not our highest priority.

From Amy Herman, Olympic College to Everyone 10:37 AM
Oh no Ryer!  Let's save a few minutes in this meeting to get an update on how things are going at Centralia!

From Nicole Longpre to Everyone 10:38 AM
I'm sorry Ryer

From Lily Kun (SPSCC) to Everyone 10:38 AM
How frustrating, Ryer!

From Ryer Banta Centralia College to Everyone 10:38 AM
Thanks all. We could talk about that on Thursday too.

From Melinda Martin to Everyone 10:38 AM
Oh, Ryer! That's awful!

From abby koehler (she/her) to Everyone 10:38 AM
Cooperative management of electronic resources? Is that a possibility?

From Melinda Martin to Everyone 10:39 AM
Wade: Individualized support - can you add - ALMA/Primo optimization projects

From abby koehler (she/her) to Everyone 10:39 AM
Maybe that's in "shared licensing" but that doesn't cover discoverability issues

From Kirsti Thomas (Seattle Colleges) to Everyone 10:43 AM
Consolidated Technical Services?
or just a smaller number of shared Alma instances
Like how much easier would it be for Everett, Edmonds, Shoreline & Lake Washington to share an Alma instance?

From Ryer Banta Centralia College to Everyone 10:44 AM
Like Abby suggested, big picture could include basically a broad vision of improving online experience.

From Kirsti Thomas (Seattle Colleges) to Everyone 10:46 AM
That's a really good point Dan

From Nicole Longpre to Everyone 10:49 AM
I've not seen those reports, but occasionally see students who take classes at different schools
When all college departments get the same % cut of budget, it doesn't seem like they are valuing the library.

From abby koehler (she/her) to Everyone 10:51 AM
This is a little different, but even if they don't do internal switcherooing, lots of students transfer to other places in general, right? It could be beneficial regardless if we're more consistent from an instructional standpoint in cooperative management of electronic resources

From Traci Taylor (BTC) to Everyone 10:53 AM
I need to head out to the reference desk. Have a great week everyone!

From Ryer Banta Centralia College to Everyone 10:58 AM
Gotta run. Looking forward to continuing this conversation.

From Kirsti Thomas (Seattle Colleges) to Everyone 10:58 AM
Tragedy of the Commons

From abby koehler (she/her) to Everyone 10:58 AM
I wonder if it would be worth the group's time to try to make sure there's a good base understanding of what all these mean (some folks aren't here, etc.), and then work together to prioritize them (like a Google form or survey or whatever)

From Dan Moore to Everyone 10:59 AM
+1 abby
I do have to run to go to a faculty senate meeting, see y'all around!

From Lynn Robinson (BTC) to Everyone 10:59 AM
Thank you all.

From Lily Kun (SPSCC) to Everyone 11:00 AM
Gotta go. This is a good conversation.

From Lesley Caldwell (Librarian, she/her) to Everyone 11:00 AM
Ditto! Thanks everyone!

From abby koehler (she/her) to Everyone 11:00 AM
Good news: We got our A-Z Database Search working at Whatcom! 2 categories, 8 databases so far: https://sbctc-whatcomctc.primo.exlibrisgroup.com/discovery/dbsearch?vid=01STATEWA_WHATCC:WHATCOM. Thanks to Wade for his help!

From Amy Herman, Olympic College to Everyone 11:01 AM
Way to go Abby!  Let's have you give us a tour at another meeting!

From Melinda Martin to Everyone 11:01 AM
Awesome Abby!

From abby koehler (she/her) to Everyone 11:01 AM
👍🏽

From Jennifer Rohan to Everyone 11:03 AM
This has been a great conversation - lots of good visions here. Thank you so much, everyone.

From abby koehler (she/her) to Everyone 11:03 AM
Thanks everyone! I appreciated thinking about this together. See you soon!

From Melinda Martin to Everyone 11:03 AM
Thanks all!

Chat from Thursday, March 10, 2022

From Me to Everyone 10:03 AM
We'll give it another minute, then start.
https://libguides.bigbend.edu/c.php?g=1223858
From Dan Moore to Everyone 10:07 AM
That is crazy
probably FERPA related things eh
From Me to Everyone 10:08 AM
https://libguides.bigbend.edu/c.php?g=1223858
From Tria Skirko to Everyone 10:16 AM
Wenatchee :-)
From Dan Moore to Everyone 10:20 AM
openathens is good
From Kirsti Thomas (Seattle Colleges) to Everyone 10:21 AM
OpenAthens is similar to Shibboleth I think.
From Dan Moore to Everyone 10:21 AM
dannnnnnnnnng
From Lily Kun (SPSCC) to Everyone 10:22 AM
Well, that doesn't sound good...
From Dan Moore to Everyone 10:24 AM
I know a librarian in PA who cheers on OA all the time, says it really opens up his library to granularly control access
From Lily Kun (SPSCC) to Everyone 10:24 AM
We used to have in-person meetings, too....
From Dan Moore to Everyone 10:26 AM
I remember that Amy lol
same
our regional group is sbctc and orbis anyways so
From Melinda Martin to Everyone 10:29 AM
Yeah - all the hats.
From abby {she/her} to Everyone 10:29 AM
🤠
From Lily Kun (SPSCC) to Everyone 10:33 AM
I'm attending ER&L Conference next week. Is anybody going to attend, too?
From Melinda Martin to Everyone 10:33 AM
I wish.
From Kirsti Thomas (Seattle Colleges) to Everyone 10:33 AM
RE: Resource sharing-- there's a regional courier service that Orbis Cascade contracts with and other libraries are allowed to buy into the contract. Downside is the annual cost is $7000-$10,000/year per institution.
From Lily Kun (SPSCC) to Everyone 10:35 AM
I can't see our students using the courier service very often. Most just want the book *right now* and don't want to wait for it.
From Melinda Martin to Everyone 10:35 AM
It's under Rosters: https://libguides.bigbend.edu/c.php?g=1143639&p=8344376
From Dan Moore to Everyone 10:35 AM
+1 lily
From Kirsti Thomas (Seattle Colleges) to Everyone 10:38 AM
@Lily-- That's what I'm hearing from the Reference librarians here too.
From Kirsti Thomas (Seattle Colleges) to Everyone 10:45 AM
The hope when this plan started was that the WA SBCTC libraries would be able to do resources sharing with the Orbos Cascade libraries thanks to Alma.
"resource sharing" and "Orbis Cascade"
From Dan Moore to Everyone 10:46 AM
I would layer on Lily's point too by saying that culturally this would be a big change, that we wouldn't be buying books for our collection but instead books for "the system." Some folks have strong feelings about that type of ownership, and may want to buy books in a way to keep them from being requestable
From Amy Herman, Olympic College to Everyone 10:47 AM
HUGE turnover in LLC
From Melinda Martin to Everyone 10:48 AM
Dan- to your point, there may also be monetary issues involved with purchasing items that don't "belong" to your campus. Certain pots of money may not allow that.
From Dan Moore to Everyone 10:48 AM
Yeah absolutely
From Amy Herman, Olympic College to Everyone 10:49 AM
I have a concern about something else that was added to the "list" created from our Tuesday discussion... but I have to hop off for another meeting in a couple of minutes.
From Kirsti Thomas (Seattle Colleges) to Everyone 10:50 AM
I'd love to hear your comments before you have to leave Amy!
From Lily Kun (SPSCC) to Everyone 10:51 AM
@Dan: My dean is feeling the pressure from administration, too...
From abby {she/her} to Everyone 10:52 AM
I have to head out, nice to hear from folks!
From Melinda Martin to Everyone 10:53 AM
Perhaps bargaining/collective planning for platform for OER?
Yes!
From Amy Herman, Olympic College to Everyone 10:54 AM
I have to go to.  Thanks for the discussion!
*too
From Lily Kun (SPSCC) to Everyone 10:54 AM
@Melinda, platform seems to lean towards Pressbooks?
From Dan Moore to Everyone 10:55 AM
Same Kirsti
From Melinda Martin to Everyone 10:55 AM
Yeah - apparently. Though, I'm curious if they looked at anything else.
From Lily Kun (SPSCC) to Everyone 10:57 AM
I'm kinda doubtful...
Yes, Kirsti!
From Melinda Martin to Everyone 11:01 AM
Is this different from "First Search"?
From Dan Moore to Everyone 11:02 AM
if we can tie an ILS/shared collection project to have any positive impact on staffing, then my library will be 100% for it
I've gotta hop off and meet with my dean, good chat all, see ya next week!
From Lily Kun (SPSCC) to Everyone 11:03 AM
I gotta go. Good convo. Thanks everyone!
From Tria Skirko to Everyone 11:05 AM
run :-)